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[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Jonathan Schleifer)

Sat, 2014-03-29 23:45
Am 26.03.2014 um 21:54 schrieb Rene Gollent anevilyak@xxxxxxxxx: Plain and simply, I find the sheer amount of paranoia displayed by you surrounding both SecureBoot and all the package signing entirely excessive, and simply resulting in unnecessary busywork and annoyance for both the end users and the relatively small pool of people handling the porting work. For users, it would be purely optional. And I would do the work. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Jonathan Schleifer)

Sat, 2014-03-29 23:45
Am 26.03.2014 um 21:48 schrieb Urias McCullough umccullough@xxxxxxxxx: Come on now...you're just twisting definitions. Remote Code Execution generally means that the code execution is triggered by a remote machine. What you're referring to is Arbitrary Code Execution. Well, it can be triggered by a remote by injecting code into your hpkgs. But ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Rene Gollent)

Sat, 2014-03-29 23:45
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Jonathan Schleifer js-haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: So you really think it's better that the default is to download unsigned binaries than to have signed packages? So you basically prefer remote code execution with full system access, because that's what it basically is? Come on, you're not serious? Plain and simply, I find the sheer amount of paranoia displayed by you surrounding both SecureBoot and all the package signing entirely excessive, and simply resulting in unnecessary busywork and annoyance ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Urias McCullough)

Sat, 2014-03-29 23:45
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Jonathan Schleifer js-haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: You execute code from a remote without checking it. That's what I meant with that. Come on now...you're just twisting definitions. Remote Code Execution generally means that the code execution is triggered by a remote machine. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Jonathan Schleifer)

Sat, 2014-03-29 21:45
Am 26.03.2014 um 21:19 schrieb Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx: On 26.03.2014 04:08, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: Am 25.03.2014 um 21:55 schrieb Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx: Scripting language interpreters would have to support restricting execution to signed code as well. That means we'd need to patch almost anything that includes some kind of scripting language. Doesn't seem doable. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Jonathan Schleifer)

Fri, 2014-03-28 22:45
Am 26.03.2014 um 21:32 schrieb Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx: On 26.03.2014 04:13, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: Am 25.03.2014 um 22:00 schrieb Rene Gollent anevilyak@xxxxxxxxx: +1, I frankly don't see the point of most of this myself, it's certainly not functionality I'd voluntarily use at least, or be willing to see enabled in a default build. So you really think it's better that the default is to download unsigned binaries than to have signed packages? ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Ingo Weinhold)

Fri, 2014-03-28 20:45
On 26.03.2014 04:13, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: Am 25.03.2014 um 22:00 schrieb Rene Gollent anevilyak@xxxxxxxxx: +1, I frankly don't see the point of most of this myself, it's certainly not functionality I'd voluntarily use at least, or be willing to see enabled in a default build. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Ingo Weinhold)

Fri, 2014-03-28 20:45
On 26.03.2014 04:08, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: Am 25.03.2014 um 21:55 schrieb Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx: Scripting language interpreters would have to support restricting execution to signed code as well. That means we'd need to patch almost anything that includes some kind ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Switching back form yasm to nasm (Axel Dörfler)

Fri, 2014-03-28 20:45
On 03/26/2014 09:05 PM, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: So the question is: Replace yasm by nasm or just get rid of yasm? Any of the alternatives is fine by me. I just think I remember we used some of the more advanced features of nasm/yasm that makes switching to gas harder. Ideally, the less build dependencies, the better. It's just a lot more ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Switching back form yasm to nasm (Jonathan Schleifer)

Fri, 2014-03-28 20:45
Hi! I know that nasm was replaced with yasm some time ago because yasm supported newer instructions, but these days, the situation reversed: Now nasm supports newer instructions. Therefore, I'd like to switch back from yasm to nasm as it provides newer instructions and also offers a disassembler, ndisasm. Any objections that I do the switch? The only reason I see for yasm is libyasm. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: hpkgs and compression (Jonathan Schleifer)

Fri, 2014-03-28 18:45
Am 26.03.2014 um 16:51 schrieb David Given dg@xxxxxxxxxxx: It can significantly improve performance and reduce code complexity, but the downside is that the disk format has to be the same endianness as your code (unless you want to do evil things). Not really: x86 has bswap which you could use just after the read, PPC has lwbrx to load a swapped word from memory. So when accessing the values from the mmap'd struct, you could just use something like BE_TO_HOST(foo.field). ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: hpkgs and compression (David Given)

Fri, 2014-03-28 18:45
On 3/25/14, 8:59 PM, Ingo Weinhold wrote: [...] Yes, the start of the data is always page-aligned. What I meant is making contained data structures 8-byte aligned, like the start of the heap, the TOC, etc. Not sure for what reason. I don't see a benefit in mmap()ing these structures anyway. Because it means that you can access the structures via a pointer, ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Jonathan Schleifer)

Fri, 2014-03-28 18:45
Am 25.03.2014 um 23:09 schrieb Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx: It restricts us to a single algorithm. Not really, as we could just increase the hpkg version to change the version. Or do you want to use multiple algorithms at the same time so that an attacker can chose the algorithm he can break the easiest? ;) I'm trying to introduce as little complexity as possible, because complexity is what makes every ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Jonathan Schleifer)

Fri, 2014-03-28 18:45
Am 25.03.2014 um 22:04 schrieb François Revol revol@xxxxxxx: On 25/03/2014 22:00, Rene Gollent wrote: On Mar 25, 2014 4:55 PM, Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx wrote: Anyway, it seems to me that to get a significant benefit out of supporting Secure Boot one would have to go to great length. I'm less and less convinced that it is worthwhile to consider it at all. And with it making package signing anything more than an optional feature mainly targeted at third parties. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Jonathan Schleifer)

Fri, 2014-03-28 16:45
Am 25.03.2014 um 22:00 schrieb Rene Gollent anevilyak@xxxxxxxxx: +1, I frankly don't see the point of most of this myself, it's certainly not functionality I'd voluntarily use at least, or be willing to see enabled in a default build. So you really think it's better that the default is to download unsigned binaries than to have signed packages? So you basically prefer remote code execution with full system access, because that's what it basically is? Come on, you're not serious? ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Jonathan Schleifer)

Fri, 2014-03-28 16:45
Am 25.03.2014 um 21:55 schrieb Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx: Scripting language interpreters would have to support restricting execution to signed code as well. That means we'd need to patch almost anything that includes some kind of scripting language. Doesn't seem doable. (Unfortunately even Lenovo makes switching the disk rather hard these days. :-/ But that's another topic.) ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Ingo Weinhold)

Fri, 2014-03-28 16:45
On 24.03.2014 20:07, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: Am 24.03.2014 um 17:10 schrieb Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx: I would also add a field for the signature length to be forward compatible. Moreover adding multiple signatures to a package could be supported as well. I suppose adding multiple blocks of that kind would do the trick already. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (François Revol)

Fri, 2014-03-28 16:45
On 25/03/2014 22:00, Rene Gollent wrote: On Mar 25, 2014 4:55 PM, Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx wrote: Anyway, it seems to me that to get a significant benefit out of supporting Secure Boot one would have to go to great length. I'm less and less convinced that it is worthwhile to consider it at all. And with it making package signing anything more than an optional feature mainly targeted at third parties. +1, I frankly don't see the point of most of this myself, it's certainly not functionality I'd voluntarily use at least, or be willing to see ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Design for signed packages (Rene Gollent)

Fri, 2014-03-28 14:45
On Mar 25, 2014 4:55 PM, Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx wrote: Anyway, it seems to me that to get a significant benefit out of supporting Secure Boot one would have to go to great length. I'm less and less convinced that it is worthwhile to consider it at all. And with it making package signing anything more than an optional feature mainly targeted at third parties. +1, I frankly don't see the point of most of this myself, it's certainly not functionality I'd voluntarily use at least, or be willing to see enabled in a default build. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: hpkgs and compression (Ingo Weinhold)

Fri, 2014-03-28 10:45
On 24.03.2014 20:21, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: Am 24.03.2014 um 11:44 schrieb Ingo Weinhold ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx: But aligning it for mmap() is a good point - though we should use 8 instead of 4 I guess, since some platforms have 8 bytes as their natural alignment. ...
Categories: Development